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Talk:Reinhard Heydrich
Heydrich and Peiper after him considered themselves Fuhrers, or as close to Fuhrers as could be found in postwar Germany. I'm debating throwing them into the German Chancellors of ATLs category. Thought I'd open the proposal for discussion. Turtle Fan 06:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :I don't recall either considering themselves as such. I think the Chancellors category should be reserved for those who officially held the office. TR 00:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::Heydrich thought "If anyone in Germany rated as Fuhrer these days, it was him." I don't remember where but in the same scene he attached new significance to his title of "Reichsprotektor"--he was protecting the Reich, as a Fuhrer would. Peiper got a similar chill the first time he called himself "Reichsprotektor." Since that title was never bestowed upon him by Hitler or Himmler or anyone in the official chain of command, there's the clear understanding that the GFF has the right to act as the successor of the Nazi government and that the head of the GFF is thus head of said government. ::Of course, as of the end of MwIH that government existed only in the minds of the people who wanted it to, which was a depressingly large number. Maybe some day Peiper or his successor will force the Allies to recognize him as Fuhrer, or as Chancellor and President, but how should I know? We haven't got there yet. I'm curious about what happens in that timeline after the book ended. The characters were boring but the story was exciting. ::Now as for "those who actually held the office," we have run into the problem of the fact that the title was always changing in different stories, so those who held the office of "Chancellor" in ATLs are on a rather short list. But I understand you to mean, those who were officially and internationally recognized as the heads of legally established German governments. Turtle Fan 06:24, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Bounty Why do you think it ws that only the US put a price on Heydrich's head? All the Allies had an interest in seeing him eliminated, you'd think Moscow, London, and Paris would have matched Washington's offer, as a face-saving gesture if nothing else. "We're committed to establishing a just society in Germany too, you know." Or, in the highly unlikely event that they were too cash-strapped to spare a million dollars apiece--and a national government has got to be pretty damned bankrupt to get to that point--they could at least have chipped in a fraction of that in addition to the American money to make it look like they gave a shit whether the man who was attacking their soldiers and diplomats and rolling back the war aims for which they'd sacrificed so much* were brought to justice or not. Turtle Fan 05:41, September 10, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well, the Brits and Russians sacrificed so much, the French took this one easy. Turtle Fan 05:41, September 10, 2010 (UTC) Reviewing at amazon, I can't tell if it was only the U.S. or not. We don't have any extended Brit or French POVS, and the American POVs would, logically, be more interested in what their government might be paying them than what their counter-parts might receive. :The other Allies could have paid the Americans, couldn't they have? If a Brit had caught Heydrich, do you think the US would have said "Thanks, it's just too bad you're not one of ours or we would have paid you" and left him high and dry? The US might have ordered its soldiers not to accept foreign money, or asked the Allies not to offer it; but what about Birnbaum? He wasn't even a US citizen, let alone a US soldier; he was a stateless person and none of Washington's concern. And I would expect Cobb or Weissberg to mention that Birnbaum was getting even more than they were. Turtle Fan 23:12, September 10, 2010 (UTC) I suspect the USSR would have an ideological aversion to the idea that people might do something for profit rather than for the good of the proletariat. TR 20:35, September 10, 2010 (UTC) :An ideological aversion, sure; but it never stopped them from offering a bribe whenever it suited their purposes, especially not in the international arena. Turtle Fan 23:12, September 10, 2010 (UTC) TWTPE I was just wondering if he might have a role to play as TWTPE develops. I mean something beyond Sarah Goldman saying she found him creepy. What that role might be I can't really think of, but it is worth noting that the people who killed him would be standing at ground zero for any butterfly effects in this timeline. Makes his assassination a rather intriguing question mark, if you ask me. Turtle Fan 19:50, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :Not to mention that the Brits were the master planners of that particular operation. ::That too. Turtle Fan 00:53, April 26, 2012 (UTC) :I think with the Holocaust either postponed for the time being, much of what made Heydrich relevant in OTL isn't present. He could, I suppose, be Deputy Reichsprotektor of Bohemia and Moravia in OTL a little early; we know the Nazis are shoving the Czech Jews into ghettoes, a task he'd be more than qualified to oversee. :If that happens, HT's love of irony might still put Heydrich under Czechoslovak guns (or anti-tank gun, as the case may be). :Hitler seems to have considered making Heydrich his successor at some point. Given the two coup attempts against Hitler so far, maybe the third one works, and Heydrich claws his way to the top (a change of pace from Himmler, there). (Actually, given HT's tendencies and the themes of this series, I think a successful coup against Hitler will also spell the end of Nazism, and I think Carl Goerdeler will wind up as chancellor, but that's just me.) :Or the next reference we could get is Sarah saying: "I used to be afraid of Heydrich, but he really fizzled out, career-wise. Maybe if things had been different..." TR 20:27, April 25, 2012 (UTC) ::Perhaps the successful overthrow of Hitler has the immediate result of a power struggle, with Heydrich leading the Nazi diehard faction? ::Or perhaps Heydrich is given the job of setting up some way to arrange the deaths and disappearances of large numbers of Jews in occupied territory right under SecCo's noses? ::Come to think of it, either would be fairly close to the most prominent role HT has yet assigned him. Turtle Fan 00:53, April 26, 2012 (UTC) Uh, one of the few or our TWPE predictions that mostly was correct. I mean, we weren't quite right in the details - Hitler was overthrown and replaced by Guderian, and Heydrich did lead the die-hards, but he didn't do it for long. Still, we got the broad outline essentially correct. TR (talk) 18:51, May 28, 2016 (UTC) Worldwar The Heydrich references in WW might be pithy enough to move to hist refs, but I could see how an argument might be made for keeping the section here.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 19:35, January 15, 2017 (UTC) :Heyrdich's death takes place concurrently with the invasion. His death also has long term repercussions into the 1960s that is didn't haven in OTL. Those reasons justify its place here. TR (talk) 19:51, January 15, 2017 (UTC)